#2 AND #3 ... DEAD?

[rtil]

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20030768.txt

They're pretty sure on the confirmation now - after a firefight in Iraq it was believed Saddam's sons were among the dead.

[Kyuu]

So, 80 - 100% certain here?

If so, that's f-in' good news!

[GTO]

uh huh. How many times did they think they killed Osama?

whatever

[Just_Plain_Onion]

Dead or not, it doesn't matter...Iraq is still a big mess. It was from the begining, there was never anything they could have done to prevent it from happening.

Why? Deceptions, lies, and Bush & Co. on a mission... What good is a war when those are what is used to start it? And what good is it when all those rosy near-perfect after-war outlooks turn out to be false and your skimpy after-war plans fail? We kill the sons of the guy we demonized (And yes, I know they weren't nice guys...)? Whopy-do.

[Aya-kun]

After the firefight, it was hard for them to know exactly who they were but after DNA testing they were able to tell that it was #2 and 3. This is most certainly great news.

[Mercutio]

uh huh. How many times did they think they killed Osama?

whatever

-They have been killed.

[GTO]

uh huh. How many times did they think they killed Osama?

whatever

-They have been killed.

oh, no no, go ahead. You can go ahead and believe whatever you want. Just agree with EVERYTHING you hear on the news and TOTALLY trust every word of the government. That's what's expected of you, right?

[xerith]

that's the spirit demy. i agree. personally, i'm not even with the whole war deal. call me a hippy, cos i know i am one. but the government shoves **** up your asses all day so they can make themselves seen like we're the best country in the world. #1 right? nah. we're more like #12. specially in terms of intelligence. gawd we're stupid. i mean, 12 is still pretty good mind you, there's like lotsa countries but... y'know...

[Just_Plain_Onion]

Doh, why didn't I see it before? A few days before Saddams sons turn up, Wolfowitz takes a trip to Iraq for reasons that are still not known. The first thing on his agenda? Visit a prison, one that used to be known for torture. A couple days later Wolfowitz makes the WMD claim a second priority in a speech, and a couple days later Saddams sons are killed...but also look like they were beat up.

You follow?

Current theory of mine: Saddams kids are captured alive. Wolfowitz is informed and flys in to "visit" them. During the "interregation", nothing that would help them find WMD is discovered. Wolfowitz decides to start downplaying the WMD claim (As other officials have been doing in the last few months...Bush included). A few days later Saddams sons are placed in a building which in turn gets shot up (I have not personally seen the video of the attack, but I have been told the soldiers are just standing around...can anybody confirm this?). Saddams sons are found dead, which serves a few purposes...1) the obvious advantages of having Saddams sons dead, 2) they can't tell the world anything the US wouldn't want them to, and 3) the results of the "interregation" can be explained as normal wounds from a battle.
It's just a theory...but damn, the motives and the events fit together pretty damn good.

EDIT: And wasn't it the US that made such a big deal about Iraqi TV showing images of dead US soldiers? Didn't they claim it was against the Geneva Convention (Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's the only time we would have violated it...not by a long shot)? **cough**doublestandards**cough**
Oh well, Iraq just gained 2 martyr's...

[Tracer Bullet]

oh, no no, go ahead. You can go ahead and believe whatever you want. Just agree with EVERYTHING you hear on the news and TOTALLY trust every word of the government. That's what's expected of you, right?

Yeah, c'mon guys has the goverment pulled the wool over your eyes completely? It's obvious the the U.S is responsible for everything that goes wrong in the world. I mean, the CIA/FBI/NSA/Stonecutters/Illuminati/Jews/Zionists are monitoring your every move!

You're all sheeple, hoodwinked by the words of a madman.

Hey, why'd the lights just go? What's that outside the window? And why did the front door just op

oh shi

[DistantSamurai]

my sister has this big theory that the government had Saddam the whole time after the war...and that they kept him there and made a fake "search" jsut to declare war or something like that. And in part i think that could be true i mean teh government monitors everything...our satilites can pick up radio signals all over the world...is it really that hard to find one man? And thats an interesting point Just_plain_onion

[Juni]

it may just be me but isnt it DISGUSTING how they are parading the bodies across the tv and media... does it not show lack of respect? ok yeah sure they may be horrid people but they are still people and muslim rights and human rights should be respected... They should just bury the bodies, as is muslim custom. YOu are meant to bury the bodies straight away.

It makes me wonder if Americans had been captured... how would everyone of reacted had they been doing teh same? showing the bodies in newspapers and on tv.

it IS disgusting and they have NO right to do this.

[Mercutio]

it may just be me but isnt it DISGUSTING how they are parading the bodies across the tv and media... does it not show lack of respect? ok yeah sure they may be horrid people but they are still people and muslim rights and human rights should be respected... They should just bury the bodies, as is muslim custom. YOu are meant to bury the bodies straight away.

It makes me wonder if Americans had been captured... how would everyone of reacted had they been doing teh same? showing the bodies in newspapers and on tv.

it IS disgusting and they have NO right to do this.

They only did so to prove to the Iraqi people they actually killed them.

Demented Otaku : You get a well-deserved 1,000 Down Syndrome Points.

[levvy!]

Those pictures were sick, I really don't like America's "Wars On Terror" I mean what happened to the first one? Get that one over with first. But I think Iraq is really just about Oil. Saddam's Threat was mega-hyped up. And I thought the guys looked beat up too, they look all bruised.

[Juni]

it may just be me but isnt it DISGUSTING how they are parading the bodies across the tv and media... does it not show lack of respect? ok yeah sure they may be horrid people but they are still people and muslim rights and human rights should be respected... They should just bury the bodies, as is muslim custom. YOu are meant to bury the bodies straight away.

It makes me wonder if Americans had been captured... how would everyone of reacted had they been doing teh same? showing the bodies in newspapers and on tv.

it IS disgusting and they have NO right to do this.

They only did so to prove to the Iraqi people they actually killed them.

Demented Otaku : You get a well-deserved 1,000 Down Syndrome Points.

Austin i know.. but they could have done it in a more respectful way. One picture... not a bloody media circus.

[Tracer Bullet]

Those pictures were sick, I really don't like America's "Wars On Terror" I mean what happened to the first one? Get that one over with first. But I think Iraq is really just about Oil. Saddam's Threat was mega-hyped up. And I thought the guys looked beat up too, they look all bruised.

Considering we get most of oil from Venezuela, yep totally a war for oil. And besides we could have gotten oil from Iraq much cheaper by simply lifting the sanctions imposed on Iraq if they would simply stop spending the money given to them for food on weapons.

Yeah guys, let's give a little respect for two "misunderstood" men who have killed hundreds of thousands and bury them in mass graves. I mean, Oday only tortured the Olypmpic athletes that failed to win, and the women he picked off the street to rape, why, they were clearly asking for it! /sarcasm

[Kyuu]

uh huh. How many times did they think they killed Osama?

whatever

-They have been killed.

oh, no no, go ahead. You can go ahead and believe whatever you want. Just agree with EVERYTHING you hear on the news and TOTALLY trust every word of the government. That's what's expected of you, right?

AND LIKEWISE... you disbelieve EVERYTHING that the government and media tells you... am I correct?

By the way, everyone knows Osama is still alive. I haven't heard any BIG news that says otherwise.

[Kyuu]

How cares what the issues were before the war. The fact of the matter is. It's DONE... and Iraq is getting rebuilt as we know it.

And the elmination of #2 and #3 should be of great comfort to the anti-Saddam Iraqis.

[jindo]

it may just be me but isnt it DISGUSTING how they are parading the bodies across the tv and media... does it not show lack of respect? ok yeah sure they may be horrid people but they are still people and muslim rights and human rights should be respected... They should just bury the bodies, as is muslim custom. YOu are meant to bury the bodies straight away.

It makes me wonder if Americans had been captured... how would everyone of reacted had they been doing teh same? showing the bodies in newspapers and on tv.

it IS disgusting and they have NO right to do this.

This is nothing compared to what Al Jeera media showed on their headline broadcasts. It showed live coverage of dead US soldiers and piled them up like a road kill. Also for a fact Saddam's regims were same or worse than what the Nazi's did during the holocost.

[jindo]

Ironically even the photos weren't convincing to many Iraqi's. Not to mention the angry Saddam followers vowed to take revenge on this US strike. :x

[Just_Plain_Onion]

How cares what the issues were before the war. The fact of the matter is. It's DONE... and Iraq is getting rebuilt as we know it.


Wait, your telling me it doesn't matter why we went to war as long as we rebuild the country we destroy? That logic is sick, just sick.
Plus, Iraq is still in rubble. We still don't have Iraq secured, and we still haven't brought basic services to the Iraqi people.


Not to mention the angry Saddam followers vowed to take revenge on this US strike.

It's not just the "Saddam-loyalists" we have to worry about. Believe it or not, but the Iraqi people don't like to have another country go to war with it, claim to take out their evil dictator (Who was armed by the country currently at war with him) then leave him alone, then for 10 years bomb and have heavy sanctions against them, and then goto war with them again using false and old information. They view us as another evil group in power, and many view us on the same level of Saddam. A majority claim they had better security with Saddam that with the US in power.
I'm not saying you didn't know that, I just had to say that because most people I talk to still think it's just Saddam loyalists that are mad at the US.


This is nothing compared to what Al Jeera media showed on their headline broadcasts. It showed live coverage of dead US soldiers and piled them up like a road kill. Also for a fact Saddam's regims were same or worse than what the Nazi's did during the holocost.

Al Jazera showed the US soldiers bodies and we threw a fit. We started accusing them of showing propeganda to their people and violating the Geneva Convention. ...and now we just did it. Also, on American news, I have seen dead Iraqi civilians and soldiers. Double standard...
As for the regime, they were bad, yes...but as bad as the Nazi's? I wasn't aware that Saddam had started a war to take over surrounding countries, I wasn't aware that Saddam had death camps all over his country, I wasn't aware he killed millions. I know he had mass killings and I know he had killed many many thousands, but they were not as bad as the Nazi's.

Tracer Bullet: Something to consider. Remember back during the whole Enron thing some groups were trying to get Cheney to release some documents relating to his energy planning because they thought he had something to do with Enron, but he wouldn't release them? And because he wouldn't release them everybody thought he had something he didn't want to get public? He did have something he didn't want to get public...maps, information, and reports on Iraq oil fields and plants and who had contracts with them. This was before 9/11 and the case for war with Iraq went public.
Thats just one thing.

[WildStar]

It makes me wonder if Americans had been captured... how would everyone of reacted had they been doing teh same? showing the bodies in newspapers and on tv.


Actually that did happen to us several times during major combat operations. Not to mention in several other conflicts within the last decade. We of course condemned the people that were parading american casualties...like aljezeera and now were doing the same. Its hypocritical even though the Iraqi people demanded the images. The media circus as you put it wasnt any surprise to me.

Personally I wouldnt of shown anyone the images. Of course the Iraqi's wanted this and blah blah blah...*shrugs*

[Kyuu]

Personally I wouldnt of shown anyone the images. Of course the Iraqi's wanted this and blah blah blah...*shrugs*

Of course, they wanted to see it.... just to make sure that they know that they are indeed dead. After living in terror under them, it's a big sigh of relief.

I - for one - could care less about the pictures as long as we are certain that they are dead. Good riddance!

[Kyuu]

Wait, your telling me it doesn't matter why we went to war as long as we rebuild the country we destroy? That logic is sick, just sick.
Plus, Iraq is still in rubble. We still don't have Iraq secured, and we still haven't brought basic services to the Iraqi people.

Do you even know what was destroyed?

You think in terms of buildings and stuff like that, right?

Well, I'm thinking in terms of the regime that was running the country... the average citizen in terror while those in power or linked to those in power got to live in pure luxury.

That regime HAD to go... and Iraqis especially knew that - they weren't just powerful enough to get rid of it. They tried right after the first Gulf War with the hopes of US/Allied backing, but that didn't happen. The result: Mass execution... which makes the execution rate in Texas to be extremely tame.

And you're right, we still don't have Iraq secured, and we still haven't brought basic services to the Iraqi people. But let's see you do a better job.

I'd say about 3 - 5 years before any sort of infrastructure gets fully repaired. After all, it took years to get Cable internet available in an already developed country... oh wait, that's ours...

[Just_Plain_Onion]

You think I don't know what all was destroyed? I know an evil regime was taken out of power, and I know what they did. But the fact remains, we destroyed a lot of their basic infrastructure and we have yet to start rebuilding, and the Iraqi people are not happy about it. You can't go destroy a country and leave it in rubble and justify it by saying "At least the regime is gone". Saddams sons are dead, yes (maybe), but even MSNBC is reporting that they are more concerned about water and electricity.

Lets see me do a better job? Thats easy to say, isn't it, because I'm not there in charge of rebuilding Iraq right now. The US could take decades before the first drop of water starts flowing and none of us could prove we could do a better job. That whole defence is weak, and I've personally hated it for as long as I remember. It's like telling a mechanic you don't like how they fixed your car and he tells you to **** off and do it better yourself then. It's the mechanics job to fix the car properly, and it's our job to fix Iraq.

3-5 years huh? I'm sure the Iraqi people would love to hear that, especially since they have already been telling the Coalition to fix this stuff and leave now. But why should they complain, their evil regime was taken out of power...what's a little thing like their country and fellow Iraqi's being bombed back to the stoneage in return for that? :roll:
And there is a huge difference between getting cable internet, a luxury, to the american public and getting water and electricity, basics necessities, to a country that had it before we bombed them.

[John Hea]

So America went to war to destroy Saddam's regime? Or if it's not the only reason, it still had to go down? In that logic... the U.S.A. should prepare to invade dozens and dozens of countries with such regimes. Do you see that happening? Would the U.S.A. free a country from its regime if it's not economically worth it? No. They care about their own (well the governement... I'm not attacking your people) wealth first.

[Tracer Bullet]

So America went to war to destroy Saddam's regime? Or if it's not the only reason, it still had to go down? In that logic... the U.S.A. should prepare to invade dozens and dozens of countries with such regimes. Do you see that happening? Would the U.S.A. free a country from its regime if it's not economically worth it? No. They care about their own (well the governement... I'm not attacking your people) wealth first.

Would you mind informing me of a country that does not care for it's economic well-being?

[John Hea]

I'm not saying that, of course, every country will care for its economic status. I'm just saying that you can't justify what they did by saying : "Irak had an evil regime, it had to go down". Simply because in that logic, you'd have to destroy every other evil countries such as Irak, and there are a lot of them.

[Tracer Bullet]

Indeed, it is a double standard.

[sl1k]

the amount of copies saddam and his sons have is unbelieveable, i for 1 aint certain but all i know is that out of the copies, chances that those were the real bodies is slim to nothing and yes i do have to repeat what demented otaku says, how many times did they say bin laden was dead?

[Beldizar]

a) The US took out the Iraq regime because it threatened US citizens (if that wasn't the reason it should have been. Our government officials aren't as knowledgable as they should be in the basic principles of the founding) The US government hasn't taken out similar regimes for one of two reasons. Either they aren't threatening us, or our leaders are confused.

b) At first I was going to say that it didn't really matter if we kill Saddam or his sons, but now I'm a bit worried about the possiblity of them comming into power again in some other nation. The important part is we got rid of that regime that threatened american citizens. Killing individuals that are stripped of thier power serves only a purpose in the example it sets. If the people of Iraq see Saddam walking down the street, they would most likely tear him to peices on the spot. I think the news footage of US soldiers toppling the statue is proof enough of that. As long as he can no longer threaten American Citizens the government has no purpose to hunt him down, other than to make an example to discourage similar leaders to follow in Saddam's policies.

c) The US isn't incharge of rebuilding Iraq, the UN has taken that task on. Now that we've got that on the table is there any surpise that not a single mile of road has been paved? I've said it before and I'll say it again, the UN is utterly useless.

Of Course, what I think our foreign policies should be and what they really are is a different story. I'm an idealist to the end, too bad policy makers don't understand the Priciples of the Founding.

[Just_Plain_Onion]

a) Iraq was not a threat to the US. The intelligence report that was recently released, the one Bush was mainly using when he made all those accusations, even said they had low confidence he would use WMD against our troops, even if we were invading and he was really really desperate...same feelings for using WMD against America. This is all assuming he had WMD, which again, our intelligence agencies have said they did not have confidence that he had them before the war.

b) Actually, the videos of Saddam walking down the streets (AFTER the war) show civilians coming up to him and even kissing his hands. I'm not saying that wasn't scripted, but the whole "Saddam statue falling" thing was also not 100% accurate. Most the news stories on it were exagerated, and there were reports of soldiers handing out food/drink items to surrounding civilians at the time to draw a bigger crowd.
As for him coming back to power, yeah right. He never would have come to power in the first place if it wasn't for our help, so what makes you genuinly think he, or his sons, could come to power in their own country or another one without our help again?

c) When did the UN take over rebuilding? Last I heard, which was not more than a couple days ago, if that, we still had yet to ask the UN for help. There are some countries, India for example, that will not send any troops to Iraq until the UN gives some kind of approval. The coalition is still very much in charge, and after what they did to the UN before the war, they still don't like the idea of asking them for help.

[Beldizar]

Onion, I think China is the only country on the planet that is a threat to the US. Iraq threatened US Citizens. It is the duty of a nation to protect its citizens. If you don't think that Saddam wanted to harm US citizens; that your delusion.

You're right about Saddam not being able to come back to power, it was one of those minor worries I thought up.

As for the UN, I haven't kept up on the matter but I was told by reliable friends that the UN took over reconstruction immediatly after the war. Maybe I misheard.