The Differences between Japanese Otaku, and Foreign Anime Fans

[ChatterboxZombie]

Hi, I'm Chatter and I am a huge anime fan.
I've been watching anime for years, and have thus far seen a little over 300 series.

A few weeks Ago I went to Japan on a home-stay exchange program. I was looking forward to seeing how capable I was with the language after studying for 6 years bot in school and during my own time, and as well of course being able to go to the homeland of my most beloved and treasured hobby. Anime and Manga.

I assumed that While yes I would be moderately strange in the fact that I had seen so much anime, the common belief held by many foreign anime fans is indeed that Otaku, or core anime fans are mocked and abused for being so obsessive in the depths of Japanese Society.

However I quickly discovered that this was not the case, and while I was met with the occasional awkward question or strange look, the fact that I had seen so much anime and knew so much about neither stunned, amazed or impressed anybody beyond the superfluous statement of "wow".

Now I don't mind, I wasn't bummed at all, as I was simply happy to be around all of the material possessions I had never been able to buy back in my home country of NZ. Something that surprised me though is how the society/culture of anime fandom is different, in both Japanese otaku and over seas anime fans.

I have the fondness of watching many different types of anime, usually never watching anything longer than 50 episodes. Because of this, I dont watch any of the series serialized/originated from Shonen Jump, or at least not the lengthy shonen series such as Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, etc.

While I thought that having a huge back ground of less known, more unique series would make me seem some what cultured in my anime experience, and make me interesting or relatable to the local anime fans, it actually did the opposite.

These bigger famous series taht i didnt watch were easily the most well known and popular in Japan, and because I didn't know anything about them, i gained an awkward reputation as a guy who was a huge anime fan, and yet hadnt seen the likes of Bleach, or One piece. Guttingly tragic for me but possibly enlightening for most, those who watch the big shonen series like those of shonen jumps will fit in quite easily with the anime crowd in japan. (One piece is easily one of the biggest series in Japan. It is absolutely everywhere, and everyone watches it. Everyone.)

So giving up hope with the casual crowd i decided to take my shot at the core anime fan crowd, the true otaku culture of japan. It seemed much more likely that i would fit in tehre, but again, I was both surprised and confused in an unexpected way.
There were too many ways to go into detail but let me explain it in shorter points, showing the contrast between overseas/online anime communities, and the core japanese otaku communities.

The typical core overseas/western anime fan watches a lot of different series. While there are those who fit into the casual crowd and mainly watch the larger series, rarely branching off, its not uncommon to come across anime fans online, or irl who have seen hundreds of anime series. Because we dont have access to huge variety in anime related products, we tend to move onto other series very quickly, and value knowledge and understanding of a large range of series, rather than an in depth, obsessive knowledge of a few single series.
In Japan however, the Typical core anime fan has rarely seen that many series. The idea for an 18 year old to have seen 300+ series was absolutely unheard of over there, and even the core anime fans tend to only watch about 20-50 series. Why? Because the Japanese have easy access to anime merchandise, manga and audio CD variations and various other anime related products, They tend to select a few series that they really like, and monopolize on them heavily, buying everything related to them. This is the Japanese otaku mentality.

With Western or over seas anime fans, we tend to enjoy a large range of genres from all kinds of studios, companies and origins. We like many series that the Japanese would consider "Alternative". If you ask many Western anime fans what some big famous names in the anime world would be, it would not be uncommon to hear names of series that include western themes, are of considerable age, or do not have an attractive art style or color. Series such as Cowboy Bebop, Chobits, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Elfen Lied, Trigun.
However in Japan, these sorts of series are usually very unpopular, and are occasionally unheard of. In japan, if a show is wanted to be made, but pruduction costs dont allow a company to make the show into a live action drama, documentary or movie, they often have to settle for the cheaper, more affordable media of anime. They get made, but unfortunately are met with very unfriendly/unsupportive ideas by the otaku community. Alternative anime is not well received in Japan, and you could expect to walk through Akihabara and never see anything "alternative". Series like Baccanno, Trigun or Kino no Tabi are all quite well known and liked in online communities of western anime viewers, and yet in Japan nobody would ever have heard of them. What anime is popular in Japan? Magic girl, specifically Nanoha. Gundam. Shonen Jump series. and surprisingly little else. Moe sells, gundam sells, alternative does not sell.

We western/overseas anime fans have the tendency to create strong fan bases, and if a show is well liked, it can be expected to retain a strong fanbase for years after the series has finished. Shows like Death Note or Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann are now years past their original debut, and yet remain popular and commonly talked about it many different aspects of westeern/overseas anime fan communities.
In Japan though, Fanbases don't quite work the same way. Because series air on tv, and finish, usually never to have another scheduled run, fanbases die for anime very, very quickly. While shows can gather huge amount of attention and fans during its original run, most fans abandon series a short week after it is done airing. Why? Because its no longer on tv, its no longer new, and its not worth talking about. This is partly why series like one piece are so popular, because they have been airing for so long and never stop. but for a series to remain popular and strong after it has finished airing is a very rare occurrence for japanese otaku communities.

Easily one of the most obvious differences is the way we watch.

Us over seas anime fans of more core status will watch anime online, on our computers. We become fans of subbing groups, stream videos online, wait for the latest episodes of currently airing (CA) series to be posted for downloads, and collect huge amounts of anime for our personal digital collection. Its not unusual to see people with terabytes of anime stored away on their computer, and while anime dvds are occasionally available to us, the lack in variety, compulsorily brand of english dubs and general expensiveness puts a lot of fans off buying anime on DVD.
Japanese Otaku do watch anime online as well, and while they have no need for the use of subs, streaming sites such as youtube and the japan exclusive NikoNiko sees many japanese otaku watch anime online, just the same as us. apart from the mainstream series, anime usually airs very late in the evening, despite its content/rating. (i stayed up til 2am to watch the final of invasion squid girl on tv tokyo while i was over there). there are anime fans who take the hard road and watch it in real time as it airs on tv, but they do also watch online like us. The big difference is back series though. While if we want to watch an old series we just go download it, core anime fans will go out and buy the dvds, and for this they deserve respect. Anime boxsets in japan are insanely, ridiculously expensive, and with the recent bluray craze, youd be amazed at how much some are willing to pay for anime. The first volume of the Ore no Imouto boxset (containing only one or two episodes of the 12 episode series) for DVD is about 6000 yen. Thats about $73USD. you imagine how much it would cost to purchase the whole series. That is commitment, and the fact that japanese otaku monopolize and pay so much for anime, is the reason its still alive, and the reason we can watch it here, where-ever we are in the world, for free, on the internet.

Of course there are some imilarities.
Like i mentioned, Shonen Jump series are huge, like Naruto, Bleach and one Piece.
Fans enjoy cosplaying and going to conventions, even if theirs is on a different scale.

One of the most interesting things I learned is that the Japanese market has a far heavier focus on the trade and sale of Doujinshi, fan-made books/goods about anime.
You wouldn't think fan made goods would be such a big thing, but the creators themselves often become quite well known and after gaining status, can make a fair amount of money. people buy doujin made by respected fan writers and then sell them in their own stores. Obviously Doujin isnt a focus here because we simply dont have access to it, but in Japan, its a huge market for fans and stores alike.

Let me get this out of the way, porn is everywhere.
In every manga store you can expect to see a comprehensive and up to date erotic/18+ section aimed at a more adult audience. Doujin comes into this again and the use of hentai is a big big money maker. fans pay out the nose to see their favorite characters doing leud and sexual things, and the manga and anime market has expanded to meet those demands.

Heres one of the most important things that i want you to take away from this though. you know how when you go into a store that sells anime goods in your own country, no matter where you live (america, the UK, Australia, NZ, whatever) you can almost always find good related to Evangelion? Thats not because Evangelion was a critically acclaimed series, its not because it was a decent watch or because it reached almost cult status with its ground breaking and controversial story, its because no other non-shonen jump series in history has pumped out more anime merchandise than Evangelion. EVER. There is Eva everything. Books, dvds, figures, posters, calendars, clothes, cutlery, stationary, snacks, drinks, bottles, boxes, bags, EVERYTHING. Gainax went merchandise crazy with Eva, and I honestly think the only reason they pump out a new movie every two years inst for the fans, its just an excuse to be able to make more merchandise. Thats why they gave asuka a new plugsuit, thats why they introduced that new American chick. its because Eva merchandise is everywhere. In my favorite stores figurine section, you would literally have to dig through all the figurines of asuka and rei just to find a model that isn't of the Evangelion series. I mean i like eva as much as the next guy, but its just absolutely everywhere, and there is eva, absolutely everything. You may remember hearing about the eva themed convenience store that opened up in Hakone for a while. No other series has enough merch to do that but eva, trust me.

Mmmk, Ive said about enough for an opening post. i prolly could have made this into a blog rather than a thread but i really want people to discuss about this.
I know theres probably a lot of stuff people already knew but i as a core anime fan learnt a lot about the differences between native and foreign anime fandom. I hope you learnt something too.

Disclaimer: Nothing written hear was with the intention of being offensive, derogatory, discriminative or bias, I have nothing but the utmost respect for japan, its culture and people and no harm was meant. Leave me alone, I was just saying what i saw, heard and learnt.

get replying!

[Ian the Korean]

Did it really surprise you that much that you having watched a bunch of less well-known series would be met with that kind of reaction? I mean think about it in the US, someone who has seen star wars is pretty common, while someone who watches all of the extraneous material like the cartoon network shorts etc. might be considered someone who likes it a little more than is healthy. It's not culturally equivalent music or film where being able to rattle off a bunch of obscure names and titles is impressive. Hope ya still had fun though!

And yeah, the doujin scene in Japan is amazing. Compared to the paltry fanworks you see at anime conventions over here, there's just really no comparison.

[ChatterboxZombie]

Did it really surprise you that much that you having watched a bunch of less well-known series would be met with that kind of reaction? I mean think about it in the US, someone who has seen star wars is pretty common, while someone who watches all of the extraneous material like the cartoon network shorts etc. might be considered someone who likes it a little more than is healthy. It's not culturally equivalent music or film where being able to rattle off a bunch of obscure names and titles is impressive. Hope ya still had fun though!

And yeah, the doujin scene in Japan is amazing. Compared to the paltry fanworks you see at anime conventions over here, there's just really no comparison.

lol, i Had hopes that being uber srs anime fan would get me a warm welcome.
but seeing as how A i didnt live in Akihabara and B japanese otaku dont think like that, yeah i guess i was a little surprised.
seems kinda obvious now though lol

But in the school i went to i was revered as anime god. i knew more about anime than the 40 kids in my class did

[[Seeker]]

Dang, I'm having trouble finding several good quality series, yet you've seen 300+.

OT: How did you find the level of education in Japan? Is it, for instance, AP level of American education?

[ChatterboxZombie]

Dang, I'm having trouble finding several good quality series, yet you've seen 300+.

OT: How did you find the level of education in Japan? Is it, for instance, AP level of American education?

The Japanese Education system is very different to the likes of most western schools.
It has a heavy focus on the memorization of facts, rather than the general understanding of a certain subject or Idea.
While the actual school day in Japan I found to be surprisingly lax and friendly, the real weight of the issue lies in the strict and unforgiving requisite/entrance exams.
Getting into a good school in Japan becomes increasingly difficuilt as the kid progresses, and its mainly responsible to the sheer amount of competition.
Its one of the most densely populated countries in the world, and the pressure thats put on these kids is definately evident of it.
They're still kids though, and while I can't honestly say I tried out any of the tests that they were given while i was an exchage student there, I was part of all the classes,
and the silent, obediant way they engage in each class is both admirable and stunning. They devote 100% to everything they do, and while they don't all study
out of class as much as you'd think, when its time to study, they really knuckle down.

dont know if that answers your question but i hope it helps.

[Sesma]

So how did you like the place?, had a chance to visit akiba ? What was your favorite meal back there ??

[[Seeker]]

I know why your school was quite devoted. It was an all male school, meaning no girls to be thinking about. xD
On another note: outside the anime phycology, what significant differences did you find in their mentality?

[TheAafg]

So like mainstream and longer running series are more popular in Japan? So if you wanna buy less popular series, are they harder to find? Also would you recommend going to Japan as an exchange student?

[SoFarEast]

Very interesting blog/article.... I learned a lot from reading this and my Japanese roommate.

[ChatterboxZombie]

So how did you like the place?, had a chance to visit akiba ? What was your favorite meal back there ??

Yeah its was awesome i didnt wanna come back. i got to go to akiba. i was surprised, its nothing but porn. and too many to mention, i love jap food.

I know why your school was quite devoted. It was an all male school, meaning no girls to be thinking about. xD
On another note: outside the anime phycology, what significant differences did you find in their mentality?

Hive mind. nobody steps out of line, individuality is not tolerated

So like mainstream and longer running series are more popular in Japan? So if you wanna buy less popular series, are they harder to find? Also would you recommend going to Japan as an exchange student?

I dunno, its an easy way to see a lot and experience living with a japanese family.
of course you only see what they want you to see, so you dont see the real japan in a lot of aspects.

[Gamma]

I really enjoyed your article. It's interesting to read what westerners think of the culture. Next time, slow down and be sure to check your grammar!

I'd like to visit Japan, but only with a guide so I don't get taken advantage of. Of course that's how I feel about anywhere I visit. I want to know someone on the ground who knows what's going on.

[ChatterboxZombie]

I really enjoyed your article. It's interesting to read what westerners think of the culture. Next time, slow down and be sure to check your grammar!

I'd like to visit Japan, but only with a guide so I don't get taken advantage of. Of course that's how I feel about anywhere I visit. I want to know someone on the ground who knows what's going on.

*speaks fluent jap*

: D

[Reborn Upright]

It's funny that we do ***** so much about anime DVD prices and such over here. Not only do they generally pay more for their anime, but the DVDs usually only contain a couple of episodes per volume from what I understand. Or, at least, far less than we include in our individual DVDs over here. It's now common to have at least 9 per volume here.

In any case, very cool account of your experience!

[Gamma]

*speaks fluent jap*

: D

Please stop saying "jap"; it's rude.

Perhaps one day, you could show me the sites. You know, after I get that winning lottery ticket.

[Haruki-kun]

Yeah, I've recently started watching Ore no Imouto and was curious about the imouto's hobby. I've only seen until Ep2 as of now but I noticed that almost everything that she collects are Meruru anime merch (am I right? I just skipped through it so...), aside from her eroges. It makes sense to me now that you've pointed out that they prefer obsessive love over one series than watching as much as they could.

This is a really great post. A real eye-opener for someone like me who ardently wishes to go to Japan. Thanks for the info, man.

[ChatterboxZombie]

Yeah, I've recently started watching Ore no Imouto and was curious about the imouto's hobby. I've only seen until Ep2 as of now but I noticed that almost everything that she collects are Meruru anime merch (am I right? I just skipped through it so...), aside from her eroges. It makes sense to me now that you've pointed out that they prefer obsessive love over one series than watching as much as they could.

This is a really great post. A real eye-opener for someone like me who ardently wishes to go to Japan. Thanks for the info, man.

Thats right, Kirino was a very good representation of the classic japanses otaku
later on in the series you see her reluctance to watch other series, and her hostility towards people who dislike Meruru
Kirino is the ideal otaku. monopolizes on her fav series, doesnt expand very much

thankyou very much, i hope you enjoyed the post as much as i did writing it

[Haruki-kun]

One of the most interesting things I learned is that the Japanese market has a far heavier focus on the trade and sale of Doujinshi, fan-made books/goods about anime.
You wouldn't think fan made goods would be such a big thing, but the creators themselves often become quite well known and after gaining status, can make a fair amount of money. people buy doujin made by respected fan writers and then sell them in their own stores. Obviously Doujin isnt a focus here because we simply dont have access to it, but in Japan, its a huge market for fans and stores alike.

This is another phenomenon I've recently been made aware of about since watching OreImo. I think it was Ep4 (can't be sure, though) when Kyousuke was mailed a package (actually intended for his sister) that contained doujins that Kirino asked from Saori-san. There was trouble over it and in the end, the brother brought Kirino to a Comiket along with two other girls. The three and the other otakus there were totally crazy about doujins and its creators. I've always kinda looked down on doujinshis, thinking that I don't need to read them because they're only spin-offs from the originals but then I found out that well-known mangakas make doujins too. Or maybe, some mangakas who don't want to let go of the charas they made make more stories of them but publish them only as doujinshis.

It's too bad that we don't have much by way of doujins in other countries. Tokyopop and other manga companies don't really translate them, right?

[ChatterboxZombie]

This is another phenomenon I've recently been made aware of about since watching OreImo. I think it was Ep4 (can't be sure, though) when Kyousuke was mailed a package (actually intended for his sister) that contained doujins that Kirino asked from Saori-san. There was trouble over it and in the end, the brother brought Kirino to a Comiket along with two other girls. The three and the other otakus there were totally crazy about doujins and its creators. I've always kinda looked down on doujinshis, thinking that I don't need to read them because they're only spin-offs from the originals but then I found out that well-known mangakas make doujins too. Or maybe, some mangakas who don't want to let go of the charas they made make more stories of them but publish them only as doujinshis.

It's too bad that we don't have much by way of doujins in other countries. Tokyopop and other manga companies don't really translate them, right?

well, seeing as they're only fan made works, it'd be far too difficuilt to track down and sign up doujin artists for english translation
plus they're rare, one of the main reasons why otaku are into doujin so much is that its all rare, limited edition stuff. a popular artists will probably only make
around 200 copies of an annual piece and the fans want to have all the rare stuff.

makes sense why it sells well but would be difficuilt to transfer into anime fan culture.
we have oour own significant focus' on fan works but, heh, its not quite the same standard is it?

[5oul Crusher]

Wow Chatter, that was one of the most eye opening post I have ever seen. I swear to God, you have to make that into a blog because there is so much useful information in that. Really you should, because of all the relevent information in it. Most members won't find this goldmine, but if it's in a blog it will be more accessible.

On another note; Grrr, why don't when have Japanese as a subject choose at my school. All I'm stuck with is French. Hmmm, I might make it a goal in later on it life to learn Japanese.

[ChatterboxZombie]

Wow Chatter, that was one of the most eye opening post I have ever seen. I swear to God, you have to make that into a blog because there is so much useful information in that. Really you should, because of all the relevent information in it. Most members won't find this goldmine, but if it's in a blog it will be more accessible.

On another note; Grrr, why don't when have Japanese as a subject choose at my school. All I'm stuck with is French. Hmmm, I might make it a goal in later on it life to learn Japanese.

Well, it's not on A4 but to be honest Im way ahead of you.

lol
glad to hear you enjoyed reading it bro
bummer your school doesnt offer jap but believe me, most jap courses at school are f*cking hopeless
i learnt most of what I can do from self study and my ex job at a jap restaurant.

if you have any other questions ill be happy to answer

[Fervor]

Great post. Very informative. Thank you.

I'm always curious to hear about Japanese society. It seems so strange to an outsider. I get a taste of it from all the anime I watch, but it's not quite the same. Japan seems like one of the strangest places in the world.

As for your post, the standard otaku behavior sounds kinda like the Star Wars or Star Trek fanboys you'd find here. Vampires. Harry Potter.

I do feel like you aren't quite getting the full picture of Japanese anime culture, though. Obviously the popularity of Naruto and One Piece is going to dwarf the popularity of anything else. But if there wasn't a demand for series like Baccano or Cowboy Bebop, they wouldn't be made at all. Yet, there are plenty of the 'alternative' anime being made.

If a visitor came to the USA and spent time with some typical families, they'd assume that all Americans only love reality TV, football and vampires. Obviously, that's not true, but based only on popularity, it can seem like it sometimes. There are plenty of people who enjoy good TV shows with real depth.

Similarly, I'm sure there are groups of anime fans in Japan who appreciate good anime and aren't obsessed with only the popular.

[Funkgun]

After reading this I can now understand why "popular" characters change like the ever blowing wind in Japan. Polls on top characters easily knock off something that might hold a grip outside of Japan like a vice. The new kid on the block knocks the old one off the pedestal.

I also think Gainax mined Eva much like Lucas mined Star Wars. Wrench it for every last dollar of merchandise... then rinse repeat.

[ChatterboxZombie]

Great post. Very informative. Thank you.

I'm always curious to hear about Japanese society. It seems so strange to an outsider. I get a taste of it from all the anime I watch, but it's not quite the same. Japan seems like one of the strangest places in the world.

As for your post, the standard otaku behavior sounds kinda like the Star Wars or Star Trek fanboys you'd find here. Vampires. Harry Potter.

I do feel like you aren't quite getting the full picture of Japanese anime culture, though. Obviously the popularity of Naruto and One Piece is going to dwarf the popularity of anything else. But if there wasn't a demand for series like Baccano or Cowboy Bebop, they wouldn't be made at all. Yet, there are plenty of the 'alternative' anime being made.

If a visitor came to the USA and spent time with some typical families, they'd assume that all Americans only love reality TV, football and vampires. Obviously, that's not true, but based only on popularity, it can seem like it sometimes. There are plenty of people who enjoy good TV shows with real depth.

Similarly, I'm sure there are groups of anime fans in Japan who appreciate good anime and aren't obsessed with only the popular.

Well, with a lot of series its not so much demand, its more of some mangaka saying "ok, we have this awesome story, and we want to share it, can we afford a live action tv show?"
"no"
"Can we afford a movie?"
"No"
"Can we afford a documentary?"
"No"

so they have to settle for anime, very cheaply made, but then if its not the same moe magic girl gundam stuff the otaku like, it doesnt go down well, and we get it shipped here
only difference it we do like it, and thats sort of why if you look in your local video stores anime section you'll see tons of weird, alternative series that you'd rarely see in Japan.
You're right though, there would be bounds of things i have missed, and in the end, its all about individual interpretation.

After reading this I can now understand why "popular" characters change like the ever blowing wind in Japan. Polls on top characters easily knock off something that might hold a grip outside of Japan like a vice. The new kid on the block knocks the old one off the pedestal.

I also think Gainax mined Eva much like Lucas mined Star Wars. Wrench it for every last dollar of merchandise... then rinse repeat.

You know what they say, out with the old, in with the new.

[Fervor]

I'm curious about the correlation between age and popularity.

I've heard that anime popularity drops off really quickly after 18 in Japan? In contrast, I have a feeling that the typical Western anime viewer is older. As a result, I think this is going to dramatically skew the popularity of various genres.

I'm an anime freak, but even I have a very limited tolerance for magical girl or even the typical shounen series (unless it's heavy ecchi/harem, haha). It's just too simple. But I'm sure if I was 14 year old, I couldn't get enough.

I'm also curious about age and spending. Where do Japanese teens find the money to buy expensive otaku products? So is it the older fans who are spending so much money?

I guess you can see the same behavior in regards to Star Wars where you get successful adults spending ridiculous amounts of money on their Star Wars collection or buying one of a kind items.

[ChatterboxZombie]

I'm curious about the correlation between age and popularity.

I've heard that anime popularity drops off really quickly after 18 in Japan? In contrast, I have a feeling that the typical Western anime viewer is older. As a result, I think this is going to dramatically skew the popularity of various genres.

I'm an anime freak, but even I have a very limited tolerance for magical girl or even the typical shounen series (unless it's heavy ecchi/harem, haha). It's just too simple. But I'm sure if I was 14 year old, I couldn't get enough.

I'm also curious about age and spending. Where do Japanese teens find the money to buy expensive otaku products? So is it the older fans who are spending so much money?

I guess you can see the same behavior in regards to Star Wars where you get successful adults spending ridiculous amounts of money on their Star Wars collection or buying one of a kind items.

Well, im not really an expert so i cant be sure about anime popularity relative to fans ages.
i was surprised to find that what i considered to be childish, or more younger fan directed series (such as bleach and one piece) were
still very popular with kids right throughout school age, to the end of high school even. i wouldnt think 18 year olds would watch that sorta stuff but then i
remembered that western anime fans do, so why wouldnt Japanese.

Ummmm, It would make sense that interest in anime plummets after that sorta age, seeing as how they'd probably start entering uni/the work force at that age
but just like anything, anime has its extremists, and you wouldnt be hard pressed to find older anime fans
many of the blokes i saw in the stores, browsing figures alongside me were easily into their 30s, and one particular old guy made a total ruckus at
a cosplay cafe i went to lol

but you know, I guess for more casual fans, 18 would be where most japanese watchers drop off
but for the more core ones, well, anime can be something that you appreciate forever isnt it?

Japanese kids can work, but from what I understand many received a healthy allowance from their parents.
but hey, if you want stuff, you find out a way to get it, no matter how expensive.

like i said this is all just bad generalizations but you know, thats just what its like from what i understand.